Proposal: integrate hints into the Wiki?

Archaic archaic at
Wed Jun 9 22:12:04 PDT 2004

On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 07:12:29PM +0200, Jeroen Coumans wrote:
> 1. We're working on it. I don't agree that text can be navigated more 
> easily then HTML.

In this situation it can be because it is a short document, with little
need for formatting, and the flow is a simple top to bottom. This is
most easily done by catting, piping to less, or open vim.

> 2. We'll still offer the tarball. Beyond that, I don't know what you 
> would require from navigation. The directory interface online only 
> allows you to find hints based on filename. Not so convenient, if you 
> ask me, especially with badly named hints.

There is no reason that a text file cannot be added to a search engine.
That's all the mbox files are, and they are searchable. Not to mention
that grep is much better than any search engine I've seen, especially
the one LFS uses. (Tangent, can't we go back to being able to search
individual lists again?)

> 3. True. But then again, I'm only offering the hints to be a part of a 
> more generally improved website, with CMS features and Wiki basis.

But hints is a project. The website is a separate project. I don't see
why the two must be united. 

> Sure, with the Recent Changes and page history. TWiki has an RCS 
> backend. It doesn't provide a general overview though, eg. cvs status or 
> cvs log in your hints directory.

I mean for instant download. Without having to get on the web with a
browser. Something where I can get the full page, minus revision.

> That depends on who you ask :-) Sorry, there's no answer to this. It's 
> similar to asking Linux if there is a need for linux 2.8 or 3.0.

That analogy fails because new hardware is always being created. In our
situation, I don't see this as improving on anything. Even without my
personal feelings, this is nothing more than another way to skin the
same cat.

> Well, it works, but it's not easy for the website maintainers, therefore 
> we're implement a CMS. Do not be fooled by the fact that it has a Wiki 
> as basis, because it has allmost all functions that a CMS has.

I'm not fooled by anything. I've messed around on I don't
like Twiki any better regardless of the underlying mechanics. It feels
sloppy and harder to navigate than necessary to me. As far as website
maintenance, what is needed? News items are a standard thing, the format
of hints was standardized to ensure a script could parse it to create
the indexed page. What else is left?

> But I guess you'll just have to trust me on this.

Trust has nothing to do with it. I pull cvs, I grep for a keyword
(either from an 'ls' or inside the files), I read with less. It's quick
to get, quick to read, quick to navigate it's a text file, after all),
allows for easy CnP, and I can do everything but the cvs pull while
offline in a nice and simple directory structure.

I better CC the list since this isn't getting much discussion.


Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never
will.  Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out
the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them;
and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or
blows, or with both.  The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the
endurance of those whom they oppress.

- Frederick Douglass, August 4, 1857

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