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Tony Karakashian tonyk at rochestermidland.com
Thu Oct 3 17:56:53 PDT 2002

>> I guess what he was referring to was the way you constantly advocate MS

I will skip the majority of the lecture on how to avoid offending people,
however, I take exception to this.  In what way have I EVER said anyone
should use MS products over anything else?  Never, that's right.  I have 
said that *I* don't use it on the desktop, yet use it everywhere it's a
fit.  I've never disparaged anyone's use of it, nor tried to "spread the
gospel according to Billy".  This current discussion started because Joe
was disparaged for choosing a video card because it didn't have open 
drivers.  A disparagement, mind you, that didn't come until everyone else
had voiced their opinions and Joe had purchased the card.  This is no
meant as no insult to Ian, either.  He didn't read the posts, big deal.  
However no one else made that point earlier, or didn't find it important
enough to mention, until the "Evil Windows User" voiced his opinion.

Great, support the cause, however, the converse of the coin is
that, it's his machine, and his not purchasing an nVidia card is in no 
way going to make nVidia open their drivers.  If an nVidia card is what's
best for him, screw the political reasons and get an nVidia card.

>> I also will guess that nobody really cares what you use at home.  

At home, I have a number of 2 Windows 2000 Pro boxes, a Windows 2000 
server, a Linux desktop, a Mac and a Linux box that acts as firewall 
and VPN gateway.  I think it's important enough to notice that the
alternative OSes equal the Windows boxes.  Aside from that, I only
mentioned it in passing.  The real point is that I have put it to use
within my company, and I pushed to get it.  And, it's use and the use
of open source software is spreading.

>> In fact, having just spent 15 minutes trying to hop around and 
>> piece together this thread from all the (apparently) dozens of 
>> fragments which begin with a message from you, I find I'm quite 

I can't fix that.  Regardless of what mailer/server I was using, I
still wouldn't be able to fix it.  And, there are plenty out there,
even open source ones, that don't follow RFCs.  Read the fetchmail
FAQ.  Regardless, if the stupid windows admin can follow the threads,
I don't see why you can't.

>> Boasting about your credentials won't get you very far here.  

No one was boasting.  I was making the point that I'm hardly someone
who is new to Linux, or never used it.  And, hardly someone who
advocates the use of Windows over it.

>> Why do you continue, and how can you claim not to be trolling 
>> when your style and pronouncements are so provocative?

Yes, I can see how my telling people to use Linux in a Linux forum
could be construed as provocative.  I shall stop that.

> high-end stuff, we use Unix (HP-UX).  
>> Probably nobody really cares what you use at home, unless it's the
>> subject of this group/list: Linux.  It bugs us that you keep TELLING us
>> about Windows.

Um, the point of the whole paragraph was that I use Windows where 
necessary, and Unix/Linux everywhere else.  It was also about the office,
I only once mentioned it at home and it was in another portion of the mail.

>> Your concern should be to maintain services, not
>> systems.  If users can keep doing the same jobs at least as well as
>> before, they don't care about the technology behind it.  Thus, there is
>> no need to reproduce everything Windows CAN do.  

Yes, there is.  If Linux can't provide the services my people need, then
I can't use it.  It doesn't matter if it does it differently, I can train
people on that, but if the functionality isn't there, there's no working
around it.  My main concern has always about providing services to my 
users, see my previous reply.  I listed the services I provide and as
a subnote, the systems they run on.  Sometimes, I run those systems on
Windows, if necessary, sometimes I run them on a Unix variant.  The
systems are always unimportant.  Given a real choice, I'd run an all 
AS/400 shop and give everyone dumb terminals.  But, alas, that's not an 
option... :)

>> What you should be doing, if you are an IT manager, is looking at their
>> real needs (expressed, seen and anticipated) and coming up with the best
>> possible solution according to your expertise.  Then you should stick to
>> what you said and fight the political battles to make it happen. 

No, my job is to find out what their needs are, and find a solution later,
regardless of my expertise.  If I don't have it, I find someone who does,
or I learn it myself.  I do not limit myself to what I do know, my only
limit is what's possible.  Choosing solutions based entirely on your
expertise is a slow death.  Personally, I like to be challenged.  That's
why our Intranet systems run on MySQL.  I didn't know squat about it, but
I learned, and now we have plans to move it to other systems.  I didn't 
know squat about VPNs using Linux, but I learned, and saved my company
almost a half a million dollars.  I didn't know how an IT department
could be a strategic partner with the whole organization, rather than 
"those assholes who just keep changing how we work".  Now, my company's
getting sales because we can work with our customers in ways never 
before possible.  Well, I knew that one before I got there, but now 
THEY know it. :)

No thanks, I don't like sticking to what I know, it's too limiting.

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