tijmen at stamadvies.nl
Wed Jan 17 14:02:28 PST 2001
Tan Siong Hua wrote:
> Read this mail calmly and try to figure out what I mean and whether it's
> acceptable or not instead of randomly shooting at me.
> Though I have cleared up Linux partition (but not those LFS packages and
> documents) on my Win2K system (I might try LFS again when I am free -- not
> actually leaving Linux.), I purposely remain subscribed to this mailing list
> to see what you all's response to my previous mail after I discover few of
> them before I act to unsubscribe. Kind of funny looking at how you all
> manage to reply to my mail without solid understanding about What I meant,
> who I am, why I said so ..... and come up of various wild guessing and
> shootings, no wonder the world is lack peace today's :)) . Few things to be
> clear up.
Well, if you were a masochist, you couldn't have done better...
1. Ever heard of partitions? you can divide your HD in a 1GB (must be way
enough for LFS + swap) part for linux and the rest for W(hatever)2K(ill)...
Also saves you alot of partitioning...
> 1. I admit that I got frustrated and lose my patient while playing with
> LFS, which I should just get away a while and try to concentrate more on my
> final year study in University instead of releasing mail like this on this
> mailing list. But anyway everyone has the tendency to get upset and say
> something to release their feeling.
2. Okay, study is important. But LFS, the installing can't be hard... The way I
did it easily was: every evening make a script of all the install parts for a
timespan of +- 8 hours and one for +- 10 hours (on a pentium120). cost me half
an hour all day... Run the 8-hour script in the evening, the 10 hour in the
morning, and in the morning use 15 minutes to reboot, solve a little problem,
or whatever... In 3 days you'll have a fine base LFS, with no more than 6 hours
total spent on it. The rest is no more LFS and can be harder, but you'll have a
working sys and you can build it further bit by bit...
> 2. I did (didn't lie) begin to play around with Linux when it was about
> 97/98 , the way I play with it is quite different from you all I supposed, I
> am busy with my study in University (by the way, I am not doing computer
> science or anything related to it, I am doing civil engineering). I tried
> the first installation, got it success and play around to see what it's all
> about, and how was them, then I removed it from my pc. I keep doing so in
> three years when there are major new improvements released, including new
> Xfree86 version, new Gnome version, new kernel..(yes, I did successfully
> compiled 2.4 kernel a few days after it was released). Anyway I still stick
> to my study in the University.
> 3. Let's look at why the computer was first invented and why is it in
> "everybody's" house today instead of only having it inside some scary
> hi-tech lab as what IBM has guessed to happen and give up the proprietarity
> of PC (which deep blue admitted to be a wrong decision). It's there because
> most people use them to simplify/help their process of running various tasks
> (eg. communication, keeping record, calculation. modelling.. etc)(though
> some people use them for games and playing around with more complicated
> things what are not simplifying.... ), even advance server are established
> today just to cater various needs from those basic needs, without the basic
> need it's no need for the existence of those advance technology and
> operating systems... The developments of those advance technology are based
> on those need of the basic computer to save the user's time, work etc...
> (again though there are people who used PC only for their interest, thesis
> (like Linus was) , and playing around, but that's not the actual purposed
> computer was produced). I admit that free software movement is a great thing
> if it can go into correct direction and come out successful of it, instead
> of being twisted in it's direction and used by those people who tend to use
> it's complicity to "boast" their ability to handle it as well as to fulfil
> their curiosity.
3. I agree on you with this.
I use Linux 2/3 of time for "desktop stuff" (surfing, writing, painting,
building my site), and 1/3 for purpose of fun, the fun being making things that
don't work get working (wich at this time doesn't always succeed...)
The 2/3 of desktop stuff I could do with windows or mac or even palm OS as
well, but linux just suits *my personal* needs best... If you look at it
objectively (as you do, many replyers including me didn't) linux and windows in
this type of PC-use have both it advantages and disadvantages, the less skilled
pc-user could (just could) be better off with windows, the more skilled one
could (just could) use linux to his advantage. It's just a balance between
comfort and usability...
- Windows Is a very soft and comfortable reclining chair with one possible
position, disadvantage being if you sit in too long it your back starts to
hurt, especially because randomly a spring snaps and hurts you... You can
attach different cup-holders and a different color of plaid, or add some
cushions, but in fact you don't really change the chair... Another disadvantage
is that becaus it's over 95 (or even 2000) kilogrammes it sometimes scratches
- Linux consists of two parts. One (the kernel) is a framework you can't sit
on, but it'll never make a scratch on the floor, and it has predrilled holes in
it for assembling other parts to it. (in fact, you can even configure the frame
with different holes, or to fit a special floor type.) The other part is just a
"sittable-chair HOWTO". You can choose from all sorts of legs, you can choose a
stiff chair that hurts your ass but is good for your back, you can make it
soft, you can make a leather-direction-chair or just a fireplace-side stool of
it, you just need the frame. You'll all need to assemble it yourself, but
usually good instructions are provided and otherwise someone can help you. Some
companies (distributors) send you complete, but disassebleable chairs, and some
of those companies tighten the screws more than others... But you can build
virtually *every* chair you want, however a chair as soft as microsoft's is
quite hard (but not at all impossible). We're now in a state most chairs have
optimum ergonomy, but the comfort could be way better, and that's the main
developement direction for the next couple of years.
> 4. Linux is good -- but only good for the kernel, the kernel is great --
> I agree with that, but other than it's other parts (components) are mostly
> still under it's way toward usability toward it's main purpose. This is the
> same thing as I see from 3 years ago till now. If Linux is going to be
> invading every computing device (currently only good for server/advance
> scientific need ) and every home desktop, the mindset of most of the people
> who play and contribute to Linux now will have to change a little, it has to
> be created with the user's need in head instead of the programmer's interest
> and those techie's curiosity as major purpose.
(see "the chairs equation")
> I am neither a Microsoft fan (which I dislike it's way of trying
> to monopolies everything) nor a Linux fan, I might be able (I said "might")
> to represent vast majority of the population out there and their mind. I try
> to comment things objectively as opposed to you all's comment as
> subjectively or even insultingly when you all see my first mail and got mad.
> It does not shows maturity in mind and some even childish. I wax not angry
> or get irritated at all looking at those mail but rather I feel funny as I
> was reading it.
I agree with you on it that gates has done things that if he hadn't done them,
there still would only be a world market for 5 computers... It's just the late
+-6 years and especially with windows he built everything with a mind "what can
it do, and how do we cover it up so people won't tamper with it?" instead of
"what do most people want and how do I keep those springs from snapping and
hurting peoples backs?". That's not only linux, that's just why there is a
recession going on on the net, to much poeple thought that if they releived all
those technic availabilities people would come and use them. But the reason
most people watch TV on their TV instead of their PC, the *main* reason for
that, is most PCs don't have a remote control. Not *possible* but *comfort* or
*usability* is THE keyword... And Linux combines high usasability with a high
"possibility", but comfort is back a little...
> Some last word in this mail: I am a Chinese and English is not my primary
> language, there might be mistakes everywhere in this mail but I have to
> admit that I don't know good English, it's OK as most you don't even know a
> word in Chinese. I apologised for those mistakes, my final advice : it's
> good to explore, to learn and to develop in Linux world as you guys might
> someday be the one who lead it. But don't indulge yourself too much in it
> and forgot that there are people out there starving for no food and no
> I am not a guy who likes to debate and spend too much of my time doing
> meaningless talks, no mail will be posted as follow-up to this if not
> necessary. I've spent enough time on this and it's my time to do my final
> year project.
Well, this is not really a reply, as well as it is an as objective as possible
(from a linux fan) essay on the equation between linux and windows... BTW I
think the equation of the chair is pretty good. How do I come up with those
>From Tijmen Stam - "I believe in Linux" - tijmen at stamadvies.nl
POVray page http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/somepage/ Updated Dec 10,2000
count linux @ counter.li.org reg#178552, Machine#78930 & #78931
Everyone calling himself a linux master should have completely read the Bash
man page and all kernel documentation, as a test to prove himself and to free
some bandwith on comp.os.linux.* ( Honestly, I haven't done this all yet )-:
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
More information about the lfs-dev