Minor (unneeded?) omission in LFS 2002-0914?

Matthias Benkmann matthias at winterdrache.de
Sun Sep 15 04:26:27 PDT 2002

On Sun, 15 Sep 2002 12:42:19 +0000 Sven Hartenstein
<mail at svenhartenstein.de> wrote:

> > All the people who want to dumb down LFS more and more for the sake of
> > "learning value"

> (Why in quotation marks? Do you think this argument is only an excuse?)

No, I think that there is very little learning value in all those
fragments written for total newbies. The LFS book has a lot of real
learning value when it comes to teaching advanced concepts about how to
build a complete Linux system, but the learning value provided by things
like "How to install software" is very little when you compare it to
guides/howtos dedicated to teaching these topics.
> > We need to raise the LFS bar again.

> Why?

Because too many people attempt to build LFS without the necessary
prerequisite knowledge. Too many people build LFS by copy and paste
without learning anything. Too many people post trivial support requests. 
You don't let people go skydiving if they haven't had the proper training
on the ground first. But right now LFS allows those people to jump from
the plane without even knowing how to open a parachute. I say that we
should make it hard for people without ground training to get on our
plane. This will make life easier for us AND for them. I'm not talking
about shutting people out. I don't want to install arbitrary obstacles to
prevent people from building LFS. I just want to make it harder for people
to get started without fulfilling the requirements that have always been

> > Stuff like the "How to install the software" section needs to be
> > kicked out without replacement.
> I disagree. Though I knew how to use tar, this section helped me a lot
> by just telling me, that I'm doing it correctly. This sounds silly, but
> for newbies it's good just to see that they are on the right track.

The Linux Users' guide and the Software-Installation-HOWTO serve this
purpose just fine.
> If you kick it out, I would suggest a page on "what skills you should
> have before starting: tar, cp, ..." and pointing to sources where to
> learn it. 

I agree. See the "Get rid..." thread where I suggest just that.
> Again, I started with LFS after only few month slackware experience, and
> I hardly use anything else now. I would like to see that this is
> possible for people like me in the future as well.

It will be. And by requiring people to learn from the proper sources
before they can start with LFS the overall learning experience will be
> I would be interested to hear why this is a problem at all. (Sorry if
> this shows ignorance.)

See above. The traffic on the support lists has increased and has dumbed
down. This issue has been mentioned several times already on lfs-dev. Even
Gerard said he was unhappy with current state of affairs.


Why is TV called a medium?
Because it's neither rare nor well done.

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