How will pure-lfs be integrated? (OFF-TOPIC)

Ng, Wey-Han meehoon at
Sun May 4 11:23:02 PDT 2003

I went on a holiday thinking the topic is going to drop but then... *sigh*.

Ian, the definition did not change. Read on.

First of all, I apologize to those that feel that I have some how
degraded the sysadmin profession. It have never been my intention to put
down any sysadmin because I do admire them for the skills that I still lack.

Finally I now realizes what is the misunderstanding. I simply speak from a
programmers point of view and you are all speaking in from the sysadmin
prospective. From what I read, the term Programming seem to have a slight
difference take between the programmers community and the sysadmin community.

To us programmers (at least on my part, won't want to say that I speak for
everybody :>) we refer to languages like Perl, Phyton, etc, as scripting
languages, and thus, we do scripting with these languages. Programming
languages are languages like C/C++, COBOL, Pascal, etc., and thus, we do
programming with these languages.

The difference is that programming languages produces executables or
binaries object codes and on the other hand scripting languages depends on
the host executables to run the scripts (usually stored in a text file).
Although there are some odd-balls like BASIC where it is regarded as a
"Interpreted" programming language. It is yet another argument to
differentiate between "Interpreted languages" and "scripting language", so
I am going to leave it as that.

Quoting "Michael A. Peters" <mpeters at>:

> On Fri, 2003-05-02 at 00:16, Ng, Wey-Han wrote:
> > If you are thinking about perl or shell scripts, that don't count 
> > as programming.
> Why? Because it doesn't run through a compiler?
> There's some pretty sophisticated software out there that is written
> strictly in perl or python or tcl.

You are talking about software development and I am talking about programming.

> There's a reason why it's called "shell programming" - they don't put
> the word "programming" in their for no reason ;)

I am not sure if "shell programming" is the right term for it. I am not
sure about others but to me, shell programming means to write a program
that is a shell and shell scripting is to write a script to drive a shell.

Please take note that in any of my response, I did not specifically
mention anything to *down-grade* anyone or any language scripting or
otherwise. Though, I might have unintentionally hint at it. For that I

With that said, however, my argument still stand. In order to be a good
sysadmin, one does not need to know how to wirte programs but one is
required to know scripting (addition to clearify my position on the
subject). All the sysadmin I know that are good can't program but they can
write one hell of a script.

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