How will pure-lfs be integrated? (OFF-TOPIC)

Shawn Milochik shawn at
Sun May 4 11:36:07 PDT 2003

Ng, Wey-Han wrote:

>I went on a holiday thinking the topic is going to drop but then... *sigh*.
>Ian, the definition did not change. Read on.
>First of all, I apologize to those that feel that I have some how
>degraded the sysadmin profession. It have never been my intention to put
>down any sysadmin because I do admire them for the skills that I still lack.
>Finally I now realizes what is the misunderstanding. I simply speak from a
>programmers point of view and you are all speaking in from the sysadmin
>prospective. From what I read, the term Programming seem to have a slight
>difference take between the programmers community and the sysadmin community.
>To us programmers (at least on my part, won't want to say that I speak for
>everybody :>) we refer to languages like Perl, Phyton, etc, as scripting
>languages, and thus, we do scripting with these languages. Programming
>languages are languages like C/C++, COBOL, Pascal, etc., and thus, we do
>programming with these languages.
>The difference is that programming languages produces executables or
>binaries object codes and on the other hand scripting languages depends on
>the host executables to run the scripts (usually stored in a text file).
>Although there are some odd-balls like BASIC where it is regarded as a
>"Interpreted" programming language. It is yet another argument to
>differentiate between "Interpreted languages" and "scripting language", so
>I am going to leave it as that.
>Quoting "Michael A. Peters" <mpeters at>:
>>On Fri, 2003-05-02 at 00:16, Ng, Wey-Han wrote:
>>>If you are thinking about perl or shell scripts, that don't count 
>>>as programming.
>>Why? Because it doesn't run through a compiler?
>>There's some pretty sophisticated software out there that is written
>>strictly in perl or python or tcl.
>You are talking about software development and I am talking about programming.
>>There's a reason why it's called "shell programming" - they don't put
>>the word "programming" in their for no reason ;)
>I am not sure if "shell programming" is the right term for it. I am not
>sure about others but to me, shell programming means to write a program
>that is a shell and shell scripting is to write a script to drive a shell.
>Please take note that in any of my response, I did not specifically
>mention anything to *down-grade* anyone or any language scripting or
>otherwise. Though, I might have unintentionally hint at it. For that I
>With that said, however, my argument still stand. In order to be a good
>sysadmin, one does not need to know how to wirte programs but one is
>required to know scripting (addition to clearify my position on the
>subject). All the sysadmin I know that are good can't program but they can
>write one hell of a script.

I've been lurking here for a while , but I just had to weigh in on 
this.  All of the languages you mentioned are programming languages.  
True, they may each be different in their own way, and some are more 
suited to some tasks than others, but they are all programming languages.

I would like to make three points:

1.  Whether "interpreted", like Perl, or compiled, like C++, there are a 
great many applications you could write just as well with either one.  
Perl may even be easier for the developer to write certain apps, due 
some of it's strengths.  So if they can both produce the same output, 
what is the difference?

2.  Since we are all Linux users (I assume, anyway), would any of you 
argue that Visual Basic is in any way "loftier" than Perl, because it 
can be compiled? 

3.  If someone really wanted to, they could write a compiler for just 
about any language.  It is already possible to compile Perl.

Well, that's just my opinion.  And, by the way, I do a lot of 
programming in JavaScript at work.  I'm always going to Google for 
snippets to re-use, so that I'm not re-inventing the wheel every day.  
Some of the code I see is very elegent, and there are some really 
talented programmers out there.  I wouldn't degrade their talent by 
saying that they are not programmers, but "scripters", or something like 
that.  They are programmers.

Shawn at

Unsubscribe: send email to listar at
and put 'unsubscribe lfs-dev' in the subject header of the message

More information about the lfs-dev mailing list