plans and wishes

Bill's LFS Login lfsbill at
Thu Jan 15 15:54:03 PST 2004

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Alex Groenewoud wrote:

> Bill's LFS Login wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 Ryan.Oliver at wrote:
> > > Initial reasoning was that we can't trust anything on the host
> > > whatsoever.
> >
> > And that still holds AFAICT.
> Yet we use the make and sed and gawk and grep and cmp and install, and
> what not, from the host to compile and install Binutils, GCC, Glibc and
> Coreutils, the most basic building blocks of the temporary system.  If
> those programs are good enough for the basic toolchain, then they are
> good enough for the rest of the tools too, I should think.

It's not that they are good enough. They are what's available early on.
As soon as more recent ones (i.e. ones we just built) are available, it
should be preferable to use them.

I remind those with an interest of the issues with "su" during the PLFS
development. Depending on what "su" you had, it apparently took
parameters and handled them differently. There were other issues too.

My strong conviction is that we should (and do) use the things we build
a.s.a.p so that there is no uncertainty about the behaviour of the
utilities that we use.


> 1) When looking for a package, it's easier to find.
> 2) A chaotic order _without_ giving a good reason is... plain silly.
> 3) It highlights some of the dependencies as some packages are out of
> order.  (Of course not all essential dependencies are shown, as some
> happen to be alphabetical, but they could be mentioned somehere.)

I thought you didn't want to make the book for the editors? The user
will *seldom* go "looking for a package". It's mostly start to finish
for newer users and very experienced ones have no difficulty (for
instance Ken (IIRC) and myself and many others) know how to use vim to
quickly find what we hunt. And because we "know" about Chapters 5 and 6
(I'm not going to discuss that issue here - I don't feel like getting
into it) "alphabetic" offers *no* advantage to users like this. Only


NOTE: I'm on a new ISP, if I'm in your address book ...
Bill Maltby
Fix line above & use it to mail me direct.

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